"Oh, forget about it," Robert Cohn said. "Let's bet on something else. Can you bet on bull fights?"
"You could," Bill said, "but you wouldn't need to."
"It would be like beting on war," I said. "You don't need any economic interest." (104)
I knelt and I started to pray and prayed for everybody I thought of, Brett and Mike and Bill and Robert Cohn and myself, and all the bullfighters, separately for the ones I liked, and lumping all the rest, and I prayed for myself again...I was kneeling with my forehead on the wood in front of me, and I was thinking of myself praying. I was a little ashamed, and regretted that I was such a rotten Catholic, but realized there was nothing I could do about it, at least for a while, and maybe never, but that anyway it was a grand religion, and I only wished I felt religious and maybe I would next time...(103)
He offered the wine-skin to Bill and to me, and when I tipped it up to drink he imitated the sound of a klaxon motor horn so well and so suddenly that I spilled some of the wine, and everybody laughed. (109)
As the weather gets cooler here, it's getting cooler in the novel, as Jake and Bill ascend into the Spanish mountains to fish.
"It's cold up here," Bill said.
"It's high," I said. "It must be twelve hundred metres."
"It's awful cold," Bill said. (114)
The coolness in the novel clearly serves a purpose, as does the movement into the mountains and then the forest and stream where Jake and Bill fish. As they wait on the bus full of local basques we hear perhaps the first non-ironic laughter in the book. They seem to know the "values" that Count Mippipopolous speaks of enigmatically back in Chapter Seven.
1. Something changes when Jake and Bill leave Paris for Spain. What do you see changing? Quote from the reading (but please, something I haven't quoted above). Focus on what happens before Chapter 12.
2. Chapter 12: Jake and Bill fish. What makes this different in a good way than Paris. Quote once from the chapter.
3. Tomorrow I want to begin by looking at the question of "values" that is one of the central themes of the novel. We've talked about Mippi. Then we see Spain. But I would argue that we see it in the black boxer that Bill talks about back in Chapter 7, pages 77-78. That this may be seen as a positive moment and that Hemingway is holding up the boxer as an admirable figure may strike you as an incorrect reading. Maybe. But look back at these two pages and think why is this here in the book. Agree or disagree with my argument.
See some of you tomorrow.
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Many things change when Bill and Jake leave Paris for Spain. We see Jake actually finding life to be pleasurable, which we see when Jake narrates, “It felt good to be warm and in bed.” I don’t recall Jake so blatantly assigning positive attributes to anything or being this content anywhere else in the book so far. Also, we see a lot of drinking, but a different kind of drinking. “The Basques” on the bus drink for fun, which we see when they play the “drinking in the wind” game on top of the bus. They are drinking for merriment and companionship rather than drowning their sorrows. Additionally, we see the gap between Cohn and Jake widen as Cohn turns into more and more of an asshole as Brett leads him along like she does to every other man on the planet. Jake and Bill bond over this not-quite-newfound hatred of Cohn (Jake says, “I do not think I ever really hated him [Cohn] until he had that little spell of superiority at lunch— that and when he went through all that barbering.”)
ReplyDeleteJake is not “hard-boiled” at night, as in when he is sleeping, during the fishing scene, which I think has a lot to do with his environment, specifically the lack of the big mirror in his bedroom. Jake narrates, “It felt good lying on the ground” and “I went to sleep, too.” He did not have to face himself and his injury in that huge mirror; he could simply go to sleep.
I do agree that the boxer story is strangely important. Most of the characters in the novel that we have met so far are unhappy but have this facade of perfection and “okayness.” There are also the rare Mippi’s who have somehow found happiness. The boxer is the only character I can currently think of where the usual case of the facade is reversed. People look at him and do not see a perfect facade because they cannot because he is black. His outside is viewed as ugly compared to his internal happiness because he is a black man. His “mask” has been forced upon him. The boxer is described as “splendid,” “noble,” and “wonderful.” I think this scene seems like a negative description of the boxer to most people because he is referred to as a nigger; however, I don’t expect much else from white men in this time period, so it seems to me that Bill praises the boxer.
Especially in the beginning section of the reading, Hemmingway shows an increase in the contempt Jake and Bill feel towards Cohn: “I certainly did hate him. I do not think I ever really hated him until he had that little spell of superiority at lunch-that and when he went through all that barbering” (105). As the weather cools, so too does Jake’s and Bill’s feelings towards Cohn. They belittle him more overtly than they have ever before in the novel, even specifically maligning him for being Jewish. Cohn, on the other hand, seems to be becoming kinder as the novel goes on; he loses gracefully at tennis, personally saved Jake a seat on the bus, and waits to see them off. Jake and Bill have become less likable yet Robert has become more so.
ReplyDeleteIn Paris, Jake is emotionally secluded, but he opens up to Bill when they are alone in Spain. Jake went from the lonely, crying man balancing his checkbook late at night to a happier version of himself; Bill asks him about Brett and Jake answers the quite personal question without hesitation: “Were you ever in love with [Brett]?/Sure./For how long?/On and off for a hell of a long time./Oh hell!...I’m sorry, fella.” Jake also talks about his faith, which he grappled with earlier in the chapter. Perhaps it is the person, the place or the time, but Jake opens up in Spain.
I agree; the scene is about justice and injustice, which are two values one must “choose” between in life. The black boxer seems to have defended himself justly against the injustice of the Vienna boy, yet the other people there seem to disagree and threw chairs. Also in the passage is the theme of debts repaid; the black boxer was “just” because he paid back the money he owed Bill just like the boxer was going around trying to get his own money.
1. I think that three significant changes occur once Jake and Bill leave Paris for Spain. The first, and most obvious, is the change in the scenery. A good deal of these chapters are dedicated to describing the changing scenery as Jake and Bill travel through the Spanish countryside: “...the road winding back and forth on itself, and then it was really Spain. There were long brown mountains and a few pines and far-off forests of beech-trees on some of the mountainsides” (99). Though it is never explicitly expressed in the book, I believe that the detail and description of the landscape is important because it emphasizes how Jake is able to see the world in a different way. By being so aware and immersed in his surroundings, Jake becomes more introspective by looking outwards. Another thing that shifts once Jake leaves Paris is his relationships with others. I think that this is illustrated by his growing hatred of Cohn, his cynical, intellectual friendship with Bill, and lastly the relative absence of Brett in his life. Though she remains a dominant figure, Brett is no longer present in the same way as she was earlier in the book. For instance, she no longer comes knocking on Jake’s door at four a.m., and I see this distance as being a positive change for Jake. The last, yet perhaps the most important transition that occurs between Paris and Spain, are how Jake’s values seem to shift. I think that his new values are best illustrated by the interactions Jake has with the Basque people on the bus ride. For the first time we see Jake drinking for the genuine pleasure he receives and the personal connections he makes from it. Similarly to Count Mippipopolous, Jake now seems to view drinking as a vehicle of human connection and interaction rather than just as a way to escape and drown his sorrows.
ReplyDelete2. I think that in many ways Jake and Bill’s fishing trip represents a positive change from their lives in Paris. For one thing, the very words that Jake uses to describe his trip to Spain are much different and more positive than the sort of monotony he usually associates with his rather cyclical life in Paris (think of the way he describes the drive around the Boulevard Raspail at the beginning of chapter 6 as “dead” and “dull”). Continuing along with the idea of the fishing trip as symbolizing a period of change and growth, I think that this chapter really speaks to the power of the outdoors and the quasi healing powers it holds. Once he is in nature Jake seems able to relax and truly enjoy the company of others. He also gains a new air of confidence and competence, and he almost seems to forget about his terrible war injury and his emasculated state. The scenes describing Jake’s fishing routine seemed very masculine, and in many ways they reminded me of the sort of archetypal American man portrayed by Michael in the Deer Hunter.
3. When I first read the story about the black boxer I was extremely confused. Why is this here? What does it mean? What knowledge is gained from this small snippet? I still am unable to answer any of these questions, but obviously, given Hemingway’s spare and precise style, the story of the black boxer must mean something. What its exact significance is, however, I am still not sure of.
also one comment about what I said in my first response: I don’t necessarily think that Jake forms new values while in Spain, I think that deep down this is always how he’s been/what he believes in, but rather he is able to realize these values while in Spain.
ReplyDelete1) Similar to other comments, Jake and Bill begin bonding over their mutual disdain for Robert Cohn. Bill says that “he makes [him] sick, and he can go to hell” (108). They bond over their insecurities about their love lives and jealousy of Cohn, which provides a good basis for their more intimate conversations later during the trip. Also, since Jake doesn’t care for Paris, he often criticizes the scenery; however, the nature in Spain is described as beautiful. Jake describes Spain’s horizons, while simultaneously expanding his own. The men get to experience a new culture. In most of the chapters we have read, Jake speaks very highly of his intellect and knowledge of Paris. However, in Spain, he is put in new and often uncomfortable situations. The two men don’t know the customs. For example, they do not know how to drink out of the wine bottle, and they try to tip for their drinks. Jake told Cohn in an earlier chapter that traveling to another country won’t fix anything, but I actually think Jake starts to enjoy life more after going to Spain, even if it is just a distraction from his problems at home.
ReplyDelete2) The fishing trip is much different from Paris, in part, because of the scenery. They seem to connect with nature, which makes them happier. Jake keeps describing the fish he catches as beautiful, and Bill has a good dream. They seem all around more content with life. However, I think the main difference lies in the conversations that the two friends have. Right before they head out for the trip, Bill even feels comfortably telling Jake that he is “fonder of [him] than anybody on earth,” despite his insecurities about being seen as gay (121). They talk later about their childhoods, the war, and their old friends. I think they are able to bond on the fishing trip because of their isolation from the rest of Paris.
3)I’m not sure why this is included. I agree with Keyes that it adds to the injustice vs. justice theme that has appeared throughout the story. I think Hemingway values the boxer for his actions, and I agree that he holds the boxer up as an admirable figure. Similar to Jordyn, I noted the adjectives used to describe him. I also think that he is admired for his ability to act boldly. A lot of the characters in this book don’t do much and don’t stand up for themselves; however, the boxer tries to fight people when he is attacked and even attempts to make a speech to defend himself. This is an admirable trait.
1. The mood of Jake’s narration, and of the book, changes when Jake and Bill leave for Spain. Jake becomes less sarcastic, he actually starts to see, and to describe things in a positive light. There is no more “With her mouth closed she was a rather pretty girl” (23), now there is more comments like “It felt good to be warm and in bed” (116). The only thing that changes in a negative manner is Jake’s opinion of Robert Cohn, but I don’t think that this change was due to the change in scenery, I think it is on a downward slide that only accelerates the more time he spends with Cohn.
ReplyDelete2. When Jake and Bill are together during this scene, it almost reads like a sitcom, like ‘friends’ - they are making fun of each other and themselves, but in a clearly good-natured way: “‘Eat” Why didn’t you say eat? I thought you just wanted me to get up for fun. Eat? Fine. Now you’re reasonable. You go out and dig some more worms and I’ll be right down.’ “Oh, go to hell!’” (118). This chapter, especially when Jake is by himself, is an amplification of the effects Spain had on Jake. He is clearly happier, and isn’t worried about Brett, Robert Cohn, or his work.
3. I think that Hemingway is attempting to hold the boxer up as an admirable figure, there are certain things, like his abundant use of the n-word, that Hemingway does that are off-putting and ruin the positivity of the moment. In the context of when the book was written, in the 1920s, I can see why Hemingway wrote Bill’s story in this manner, but I do not think it aged well. Bill refers to the crowd’s reaction to the boxer as “Injustice”, which is one of the reasons I think that Hemingway was trying to depict the boxer in a positive light, but his demeaning language makes the scene an uncomfortable one for a modern reader to read.
1. I think there is an overall happier feeling and stronger feeling of contentment after Jake and Bill leave for Spain. I think the change of scenery and of the people around him soothes him is good for Jake and we see him actually get excited about fishing and although he is still drinking a lot, it seems that he is drinking for different reasons now. With the Basques on the bus, he is drinking for fun and rather than for drowning out his pain. "He offered the wine-skin to Bill and to me, and when I tipped it up to drink he imitated the sound of a klaxon motor-horn so well and so suddenly that I spilled some of the wine, and everybody laughed" (109). I think Spain is a good distraction for Jake from all of his troubles in Paris and it seems like he now has a greater appreciation for the world around him as he very vividly describes scenery, and maybe this gives him a greater appreciation and purpose for life. Also, Jake is being a lot more open and blatant about his hatred towards Robert Cohn as he and Bill discuss him and all the ways he is awful and they kind of egg each other on to hating him more. Jake used to be more careful with his words and kind of danced around the subject of his hatred of Robert Cohn, but now he just straight admits it and talks explicitly and his hatred of Robert and no longer holds anything back.
ReplyDelete2. Jake is excited about fishing. Usually in Paris he finds that there is really not much else to do other than drinking and working, so that's all he does, but in Spain, he has found more to do and it's healthier and more peaceful and mindful activity, and it seems to be really good for Jake. He gets some quiet time away from the office and the bars, and it seems that he becomes more in touch with his emotions this way. He becomes more open about his feelings towards Robert Cohn, he admits to having fallen in love with Brett, and he is more open to discussing how he really feels with Bill than he ever has before. "I shut my eyes. It felt good lying on the ground. 'Say,' Bill said, 'what about this Brett business?' 'What about it?' 'Were you ever in love with her?' 'Sure.' 'For how long?' 'Off and on for a hell of a long time." In Paris he was the man who became hard-boiled at night, and now he seems more at peace and cares less about Brett, Robert Cohn, and the struggles of his life back in Paris.
3. I feel like Hemingway wouldn't have included this boxer story if it didn't have some sort of importance which is why I agree with your statement. I think that this is a positive description of the boxer although it's hidden behind the constant slur that Bill uses when describing him. He describes the boxer as wonderful and noble and talks about the unjust reaction from the crowd and who the boxer didn't let it get to him and now he is successful and is married and has a family.
1. The change in scenery mirrors the change in people with whom Jake interacts. While Jake is on the bus with the Basques, we see the first characters who are genuinely jovial, such as the man who imitated the sound of a klaxon, all of them wanting Jake and Bill to “drink from their leather wine-bottles” (110). One of the Basques engages in a candid conversation with Bill about his time in America and after their conversation, Jake says that “He [the Basque] sat back comfortably and smiled at me when I turned around to look at the country” (113). I think that this is the first time we see someone smile in an unironic way.
ReplyDelete2. While Jake and Bill fish and talk after fishing, they no longer have their shallow facades and seem to genuinely be bonding. Although they still compete over the size, quantity, and the way they caught their fish, they discuss their catches with much more nonchalance than is typical for them. They have an amicable conversation about it:
“How are yours?”
“Smaller.”
“Let’s see them.”
“They’re packed.”
“How big are they really?”
“They’re all about the size of your smallest.”
“You’re not holding out on me?”
“I wish I were.”
“Get them all on worms?”
“Yes.”
“You lazy bum!”
As we saw on the bus ride to the fishing village, there is a new sense of openness between the characters. Bill and Jake openly talk about Jake’s impotence. The wound does not provoke the silence or uneasiness in Jake that it did in the beginning of the novel. Bill does not react as though Jake’s wound has made him any less of a man, unlike when the liaison colonel told him that he had “given more than [his] life” which also implies that Jake might as well be dead. Also, once Jake has caught his six fish, he goes under a tree to read what I would argue is a romantic novel. When Jake brings Georgette to the club, on page 31 Cohn asks him “What possed you to bring her?” and he then accuses Jake of “getting damned romantic” to which Jake responds, “No, bored.” Jake does not like being perceived as romantic in Paris, but in the Spanish countryside, he indulges in a romantic novel where a bride waits twenty-four years for her true love. The pureness of his surroundings brings out his true self.
3. I do not think that Hemingway is portraying the boxer as an admirable figure. I think that Hemingway shows the black boxer as being in the right in the boxing fight. The black boxer tells Bill that, “‘I didn’t do nothing in there for forty minutes but try and let him stay. That white boy musta ruptured himself swinging at me. I never did hit him” (77). I think that we are made to feel sympathy towards this boxer, but we are not made to feel respect or approval for him. I could see how Bill is being shown as an admirable figure for aiding the boxer, but I do not see how Hemingway is making the boxer admirable. Is he admirable because he promises to return the money Bill loaned him? Is that not just common courtesy?
1. I think that the most obvious change is Jake’s attitude when he is in Spain. Unlike in previous chapters, Jake seems positive. He takes walks to enjoy the Spanish town. He gives two copper coins to a street porter. Hemingway uses a cathedral in the town to metaphorically show this shift in Jake’s character. Jake states, “The first time I ever saw it [the cathedral] I thought the facade was ugly but I liked it now”(102). Jake is optimistic. In the next sentence, Jake begins by talking about how the inside of the cathedral was “dim and dark” but then shift his focus to the “wonderful big windows” (102). Jake cannot help himself from being positive. I think that there are multiple reasons for his positivity. First of all, Cohn is uncomfortable about his relationship with Brett, and Jake states, “I was enjoying it” (103). Another reason for his happiness is the bullfighting. I think there is something important about the fact that in Paris Jake was far away from bullfighting and longed to be there. Now, in Spain, Jake is no longer longing for a life, rather he is living it. This shift from thinking about actions to actually living life creates a shift in Jake’s mental state.
ReplyDelete2. I think an important distinction between the fishing and Paris is the men drink less when they fish. Bill says, “Is this all we’ve got?” when he refers to the two bottles of wine that Jake brought. Because there is less wine, the men enjoy each bottle more: “Let us rejoice in our blessings [...] Let us utilize the product of the wine” (126). The men are enjoying life in a similar fashion to the count. They value the time they spent fishing. It is very relaxing. Jake even decides to take a nap which is very uncharacteristic of him because he is always working in Paris. Jake does not refer to Brett or Cohn when he is fishing. It seems more positive than Paris because the men are living in the moment.
3. I definitely think the story about the black boxer is significant. It is a strange story and I think I agree that the boxer is being portrayed as an admirable figure. All the adjectives that Bill uses as positive words like “wonderful,” “splendid,” and “noble-looking.” The complexity of this story comes with the use of the n-word following every positive adjective. I think that the usage of that word is meant to say more about Bill’s character than the boxer’s. I think that overall the boxer is painted in a positive light, and the most revealing line about that is the one in which Bill states “Injustice everywhere,” when he describes how the boxer did not get his money. I think that this implies that the boxer earned and deserves his money.
1. Something changes when Jake and Bill leave Paris for Spain. What do you see changing? Quote from the reading (but please, something I haven't quoted above). Focus on what happens before Chapter 12.
ReplyDeleteIt is extremely apparent that Jake’s hate for Robert Cohn has elevated to annoyance to complete hatred. He sees Robert as someone who has everything, and yet still a pitiful man. In addition, we are able to understand more of Jake, as he knows he detests Robert, disappearing him behind his back, and yet, he acknowledges this characteristic to the audience. “Cohn had a wonderful quality of bringing out the worst in anybody” (103). Jake’s relationship with Robert Cohn has shifted greatly negatively, to the point where it seems like the relationship will never be mended. There even seems to be hints of anit-semitism, referring Cohn as the “Jewish” friends, as well as asking if he had any others that they could replace him with.
2. Chapter 12: Jake and Bill fish. What makes this different in a good way than Paris. Quote once from the chapter.
Overall, the ara you get in the fishing scene is a great change from previous chapters. As the others are often very bleak, dark even, the scenery of Spain itself seems to negate and mask most of those feelings. For once, Jake is excited about something, using his own effort to accomplish it. In addition, it feels as if he is making a real connection with Bill, rather than the shallow “friendship” he “had” with Robert Cohn. These two characters feels like they have gotten to know each other a lot better, joking with each other. Jake feels more relaxed and stress-free in the outdoors of nature, as he is able to distract himself on something that is not the reality of his own life. In addition, we as an audience are introduced to Jake as explicitly as an expatriate, all thanks to Bill. “You’re an expatriate. ONe of the worst type. Haven’t you heard that? Nobody that ever left their own country ever wrote anything worth printing. Not even in the newspapers” (120). Although this is not so good for Robert, it is good for the audience, as we now have more information on how Jake is perceived as an expatriate who left his own country.
3. Tomorrow I want to begin by looking at the question of "values" that is one of the central themes of the novel. We've talked about Mippi. Then we see Spain. But I would argue that we see it in the black boxer that Bill talks about back in Chapter 7, pages 77-78. That this may be seen as a positive moment and that Hemingway is holding up the boxer as an admirable figure may strike you as an incorrect reading. Maybe. But look back at these two pages and think why is this here in the book. Agree or disagree with my argument.
In my opinion, I agree with the statement that the Hem is holding the boxer as an admirable figure as the story centers around him. He describes him as noble-looking and valiant, trying to make a speech. Bill keeps describing him as a wonderful person. However, his use of the n-word demeans his intention. However, I can’t help but feel that the mention of the boxer is somehow related to the mention of bullfighters and how maybe they are the only ones living their full life. They are facing danger head on, despite all life throws at them.
The characters seem to be getting unstuck from earlier. Jake, in particular, for all that he still hates Cohn, is much more positive than he’s been. And even his hatred of Cohn is less suppressed than it used to be. Perhaps this indicates less distance between his inside and outside lives. He even has a moment of introspection during the daytime when he is praying in church, as opposed to crying at night. He says, “I knelt and…prayed for everybody I thought of, Brett and Mike and Bill amd Robert Cohn and myself” (97). Considering Jake’s sniping at his friends in Paris, this is awfully charitable behavior coming from him. Moreover, the act of praying itself is looking forward to the future, especially when he begins thinking of money and such. It’s also kind of an act of defining values, where he specifies what is important to him in life and what he wants. He mentions the Count directly, but even before then, a lot of his prayers are about concrete experiences he enjoys: “I prayed the bullfights would be good, and that it would be a fine fiesta, and that we would get some fishing” (97). At the very least, he is not so miserable anymore, which means he has less to hide as well.
ReplyDeleteThey are less shielded and more genuine with each other than they ever were in Paris. Even the punctuation is more exciting, and not ironically, either. Although Bill jibes him for it, Jake does not seem able to work up the world-weary disdain that he does in Paris. He responds to Bill’s sally in this exchange rather playfully: “‘Aren’t you going to show some irony and pity?’ I thumbed my nose. ‘That’s not irony’” (113). Later, he does not mock the maid, nor does he take Bill’s suggestion to elaborate on the pitiful nature of Cohn. Their conversations seem actually happy and of substance, as opposed to the veneers of Paris. They are direct and vulnerable with each other, and there is no bitterness there. When Brett comes up, Jake responds to Bill’s query, “‘Were you ever in love with her?’”(123) quite simply, saying,“‘Sure’” (123) in a more honest way than he could have in Paris. Everything seems a lot less artificial.
I didn’t see it the first time I read it, but in retrospect, the interlude does make sense when seen as a demonstration of choosing your values. The boxer stands up for himself when the racist townsfolk get upset with him for winning and punches back when hit, but also doesn’t let his anger at the injustice impact his dignity. He recognized the reality of the injustice and fights back against it, but also does not fight pointlessly when he can’t get the money back, although he protests. He is able to move on, because he has a larger perspective of what this incident’s value is to his life. In this perspective, the use of derogatory language says more about how we see Bill rather than what we’re meant to make of the black boxer. After all, even Bill seems to have a level of admiration for him, despite his extraordinary, casual racism, not only in this context, but seemingly in general, what with his comments about Jews, the Klan, and Brett going off with some of her “own people” later on.
1.In Spain, people bond based on in the moment interactions. Jake and Bill bond with the “peasants going up into the hills”(110). They also get to know the Basques in the bus where, “there was plenty of room now for every one to sit on the seat”(112). The people in these two situations differ from Jakes’s common circle of friends whom all share very similar interests. Except for Cohn, most of Jakes friends are working class. All of the people Jake interacts with, besides the Count, seem somewhat “miserable.” In Spain, there is a greater sense of unification even though this is the first time Jake has spent time with these people. Jake looks past people’s class and background stories in Spain and is able to bond with people based on shared experiences of joy, like the peasants sharing drinks. Jake says there is plenty of room for everyone to sit on top of the bus perhaps suggesting that there is a sense of belonging in Spain that he feels that he lacks in Paris.
ReplyDelete2. I agree with what others have said about how Jake and Bill seem much happier in this chapter. This is signified by the playfulness, joking, and positivity in the scene. I found the most striking difference between this chapter and the previous ones in Paris is that Jake stays in the present. He describes the place they are fishing at vividly and with so much detail that it makes the reader feel like you are there, “Their roots bulked above the ground and the branches were twisted”(122). Bill and Jake spend time talking about things happening in the present like comparing their fish rather than dwelling in the past. In Paris, Jake is stuck in the past. He is trapped by his love for Brett and his injury. He also goes into detailed accounts of his friends life stories and how they were in the past like his description of Robert Cohn. In this chapter, Jake is able to be with Bill without detailing his past and instead staying fully present.
3. I was and still am confused about the greater significance of including this scene, but it does not seem like Hemingway’s main reasoning to include this scene was to see the boxer as an admirable figure. Bill spends the majority of this section talking about the boxer’s clothes and how he was the “hero” in this situation. I do not disagree that the boxer is held up as some what of a “noble” and “splendid”(77) person, but the emphasis is definitely on Bill helping out the boxer.
Prompt One: When Bill and Jake leave Paris for the countryside, they have broken out of the monotonous cycle of drinking and clubbing that dominated their lives before. Also, when out in the country, Jake is more reflective, “I was such a rotten Catholic,” because he is trying to reform himself to match this new pace of life. Also, this enjoyment can be seen in more malicious manners, like when he takes pleasure at Cohn’s nervousness as to whether or not Jake is privy to the fact that he was with Brett.
ReplyDeletePrompt Two: This moment was better for both Bill and Jake because Jake is finally focusing on what brings him happiness. Before, he would hang out with Brett, even if it made him miserable, but now he spends time with Bill and enjoys it too. Bill even admits a fondness for Jake, which I believe is reciprocated, because at the end of chapter 12, Jake expresses indifference at the lack of response from Cohn, Brett, and Mike: “There was no word from…” This means that he is content with his current way of life, which is certainly a step up from Paris. Also he says at the end of eleven, “It felt good to be warm in bed,” which contrasts to his hard boiled moment earlier in the book.
Prompt Three: The story of the boxer is certainly important to values. Jake wants very much to be seen as manly…one value for him could be strength (masculine). He did go to the war, but unfortunately has returned home with an emasculating injury. Thus, he feels the need to be seen as strong… “I was afraid he thought he had hurt me with that crack about being impotent. I wanted him to start again.” And then pushes Bill to continue with the heat, because he wants to be someone who can “take it.”
Pretty much the boxer is strong in a way Jake wishes he could be.
Delete1) The style of writing changes drastically as Jake leaves Paris and heads for Spain. His typical staccato, monotonous indifference is gradually replaced by interest and detailed descriptions of the world around him. Jake describes the kind of trees he passes, saying, “It was a beech wood and the trees were very old. Their roots bulked above the ground ans the branches were twisted,” (122). Hemingway fills entire paragraphs with details about the forest and the greenery, where he doesn’t so much as hint at the atmospheres of the places Jake visits in Paris.
ReplyDelete2) One thing I noticed on the fishing trip is how easy it is for Jake to relax, how easy it is for him to fall asleep in nature. At home in Paris, Jake has trouble sleeping. He isn’t relaxed and cries himself to sleep over the sheer amount of stress and anxiety that city life leaves him with each day. But in Spain, Jake naps for quite a while: “I went to sleep, too. When I woke up Bill was packing the rucksack. It was late in the afternoon and the shadow from the trees was long and went out over the dam,” (129). On this trip, surrounded by nature and the only person who seems to bring him peace, Jake is able to rest for the first time since the book’s start.
3) What’s interesting to me about this scene with the boxer, is how similar he is to Cohn on paper. They are both fighters and both seem to be pretty good at it. But Jake does not seem to respect them both equally. He views the story of the boxer with quite a bit of admiration for his perseverance and his ability to fight back, no matter the context. Jake views the boxer’s situation as honorable. Cohn boxes because he wants to look tough, not to overcome any sort of prejudice or obstacle, like it seems the boxer does. Cohn’s fighting doesn’t have any sort of risk, other than the obvious physical one, and Jake notices that difference.